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tessa
head gardener
Australia
3682 Posts |
 Posted - 27/11/2007 : 10:31:58
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he's half the size???
do you think he's turned out to actually be a dwarf?
if he is...
the rule is that you are now a bonafide member of the cross-hemisphere dwarf project...and you must learn how to save seeds, and then send them to the southern hemisphere tomato goddess, aka patrina...whom you may already know from ausgarden.
can we see a piccie of the wee stumpy? maybe cosmic can help us determine if it's turned out to be a dwarf.
i was noticing this morning that my dwarf numbers were about half of what they should have been...
maybe it's an identification problem on my part.
i also have another stumpy that i thought was going to be indeterminate...that i'm now shaking my head and wondering if it might also be a dwarf. it has fallen behind the other's progress.
cranky people live longer. i'm going to live forever!
perth, wa |
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tessa
head gardener
Australia
3682 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2007 : 10:39:52
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oh wait...looking at your pics again...
i see you called stumpy the brown one.
it's not.
the brown is called 'happy'
stumpy should turn out to be a pink tomato.
looking at that pic you've got labelled 'brown stumpy'...i'm not sure i'd declare it a dwarf. not yet.
what does cosmic think?
in the case that it *is* indeterminate, as i'd thought, the only rule is no seed saving unless you intend to become part of the project.
(and then there's fine print having to do with your first born, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
cranky people live longer. i'm going to live forever!
perth, wa |
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Pieface MkII
assistant gardener
136 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2007 : 11:57:39
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Tessa this is stumpy:
he is definitely pretty runty compared to the others.
This is the brown, he is definitely one of the larger plants so non-dwarf:
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Cosmic
assistant gardener
Australia
129 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2007 : 12:29:47
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Just read this thread. Tessa, the Happy dwarfs you have are from the F2 generation I got going here ( cross between New Big Dwarf and Paul Robeson) and which were named Tasmanian Chocolate. A lot of the seeds I sent Patrina were late and so too late for the Northern Hemisphere growout. I think you are growing out the F3's which have in fact already been grown out in the NH as I am now growing the F4's. What eventuates from yours could well be different to the F4's I'm growing out, so it is going to be interesting to see and I think that's why PP had you grow them. I'm just about to plant seeds of Tasmanian Pink F4 which also came from the original Happy line. It's getting complicated by now, and I wonder how far it is going to go.
If the above plant is indeed indeterminate you can do one of two things. Junk the seed ( recommended) or grow some on to see if there are any more dwarfs in the next generation ( not sure why you'd bother, as there seems to be enough seed floating around). I had a couple of indeterminates in my first growout ( F2) and grew them on. They were the biggest producers of tomatoes I've ever seen in my life! McSee took some seeds to grow on to see if they would produce more dwarfs but he dumped them around the time I got banned from Ausgarden - go figure.
Your Stumpy looks dwarfish. I'm not sure about your Happy (brown)
Here's what I give to my plant buyers to understand what they are getting:
" One of the keys to the dwarf shape is that they are distinguished from Indeterminates and Determinates by having a very stout central stem, an upright growth habit with sometimes a little branching near the bottom of the plant, and fairly crinkly (aka rugose) foliage. The heights of dwarfs tend to be between 2-4 feet by the end of the growing season, and they are fine for growing in a cage, or tied to a short stake.
Determinates have regular looking foliage, not rugose, and have smaller central stems with great amount of branching, though they stay fairly short. Determinates tend to ripen their fruits over a short period of time and then quit. If you see them all ripening at once and no little tomatoes coming on the same plant, it is likely it is Determinate.
Indeterminates fruit all season long and will continue to grow to heights over 6 feet and fruit right up until the frosts hit them.
So observing through the season there are a few things that will help you decide which is which:
Dwarfs tend to fruit like indeterminates in that they go until frost, and ripen fruit slowly throughout the season. They do differ from indeterminates in the very slow upward growth, stout central stems, and crinkly dark green (rugose) foliage which may be either PL or RL.
They may at the early stages seem to be similar to determinates but they differ in that determinates have normal (non rugose) foliage which could be PL or RL, ripen their crop typically over a short time frame, and have much higher fruit to foliage ratio.
Hope this is helpful. I'm still learning myself and one of the hardest things I've found - particularly in the project - is to determine the growth types. |
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tessa
head gardener
Australia
3682 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2007 : 14:32:09
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so looking at pieface's stumpy...while it's short and stocky...it's not very rugose.
in fact...the happy is more rugose than the stumpy.
but the stumpy does look dwarfish.
we'll have to keep an eye on that...so pieface will know whether or not he gets to keep his first child.
the happy f3 that i have, as i understand it...
was from an f2 indeterminate that someone grew out. patrina wanted to know if the seeds from that indeterminate would still produce dwarves. it has, in fact, produced 2 dwarves from 15 seeds...which is precisely the ratio i have of dwarf stumpies in my f2's.
from 30 seeds...i've got only 4 dwarves.
does that sound right to you, cosmic? based on averages...shouldn't 30 seeds have given me about 7 dwarves? (yes folks...that's grumpy, sneezy, sleepy, happy (YES!), dopey, bashful and doc!)
cranky people live longer. i'm going to live forever!
perth, wa |
Edited by - tessa on 27/11/2007 14:33:13 |
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Cosmic
assistant gardener
Australia
129 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2007 : 16:44:44
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Yes, it's certainly worth watching both of them. Rugose to varying degrees is my (limited) experience. One Happy Dwarf I grew was only lightly crinkled but it turned out red so no bit problem in that I we were after brown/black/purple.
OK - so your seeds came from an indeterminate from the cross - a bit like I sent to McSee. I think Patrina sent some out too. 2 dwarfs from 15 seeds would seem good to me as would the same proportions for F2. I can't remember what my ratio was in the F2's - it's probably recorded somewhere at Tomatoville. I have grown Tipsy F2 and out of 20 seeds got 3 dwarfs one RL and one PL - so that seems about right. I'm also growing Grumpy F4 and got a much bigger ratio - 8/10 so it is starting to stabilise. My Happy F4's were all dwarf 10/10 but that's not to say they will all throw the colour we want. I'm growing 6 of them. Waiting for the colours is exciting I must admit.
Cosmic |
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Pieface MkII
assistant gardener
136 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2007 : 17:02:53
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| Hehe and I just like eating tomatos |
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tessa
head gardener
Australia
3682 Posts |
Posted - 27/11/2007 : 17:54:43
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LOL.
never you mind, pieguy, while we yabber on about your tomato plants!
needless to say....once they start fruiting...you're going to need a new camera!!! (tell santa!)
thanks for all that info, cosmic.
i'm really getting into it this year!
along with pieface...i gave my neighbour up the street some tomato seedlings (none from the dwarf project).
now, he grows using commercial fertilzer...and i have to admit...his are so advanced compared to mine. he also grows in the ground, where i can really only grow in pots due to the root mat from the neighbour's tree.
it's going to be interesting to watch how he goes. fortunately, he grows in the front yard where i can easily check his progress on my daily walks! LOL.
cranky people live longer. i'm going to live forever!
perth, wa |
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Pieface MkII
assistant gardener
136 Posts |
Posted - 28/11/2007 : 08:29:34
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| Well I guess the real test will be in the flavour Tessa. I'm putting my money on your organics. |
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Pieface MkII
assistant gardener
136 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2007 : 13:18:52
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Weeell. Pieguy's tomato luck has struck again! Cursed things have taken a turn for the worse just when they started setting fruit. I'll try to get some pic's over the weekend.
Basically there are a lot of leaves and stems just going limp and rotting off the bushes. There aren't really changing colour at all  Poor stumpy is the worst affected. Any idea's or remedies??
Also green zebra has been unaffected by this malaise but has strange lumps and bumps forming on the main stems.
Yeeaargh!!
Of course the corn is now powering away and looking very happy. Just to rub it in! Pinning my hopes for a good harvest of this at least. |
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tessa
head gardener
Australia
3682 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2007 : 14:25:28
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pieface...i was stricken with tomato russet mites,and am just getting over them now. could it be that you've got them too???? it would make sense...seeing as your seedlings originated here.
what happens is that the leaves get a bit of a rust coloured sheen to them. they feel rubbery to the touch. the leaves then start to die from the bottom up. is any of this sounding familiar to you?
in any case....here's what won't hurt:
spray them NOW...with beat-a-bug. it's organic. it's chili, garlic, and pyrethrum spray. it's cheap and the big green warehouse has it. soak em down with that (it is also a foliar feed...so bonus!) and wait about a week and then do it again.
see if they come back into recovery.
don't forget to spray the stems too...and also the set fruit.
can you take a piccie for us????
hurray!!!!
cranky people live longer. i'm going to live forever!
perth, wa |
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Pieface MkII
assistant gardener
136 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2007 : 17:21:22
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I will try the spray post haste!
Pic's on Monday! |
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